In this special episode of The Living Clean Podcast, Mason and Francis take a deep dive into one of the most pivotal moments in the history of Narcotics Anonymous literature.

The Fourth World Literature Conference, held in Santa Monica, California in April 1981, was part of the intense and passionate effort to create a book written by addicts, for addicts. The work done at these conferences helped shape what would eventually become the NA Basic Text, a cornerstone of recovery for addicts around the world.

In the first half of the episode, Mason and Francis break down what led up to the conference, what happened during those historic days in Santa Monica, and why the literature movement inside NA was so important to the fellowship’s growth.

In the second half of the episode, we’re joined by Bob S. and Kathy M., two members who were actually present at the conference. They share their personal memories of participating in the literature effort, the atmosphere in the rooms where addicts were shaping recovery literature, and the challenges and excitement of that moment in NA history.

Their stories bring the conference to life and provide insight into a time when the fellowship was still young, passionate, and determined to create literature that carried the message of recovery.

This episode is part history, part oral archive, and part celebration of the addicts who helped build the foundation of NA literature.

If you’re interested in the origins of the Basic Text, the literature conferences, or the early years of NA service, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we continue our journey through Chapter 4 of the Living Clean book as we begin exploring the section on “Disabilities.”

We’re joined by a group of special guests who bring real, lived experience to this conversation. Each of them faces different types of disabilities, and together they help us break down the first half of this powerful section.

This episode dives into what it really looks like to navigate recovery while also managing physical, emotional, or cognitive challenges. Our guests share honestly about the obstacles they’ve faced—but more importantly, they share the strength, courage, and perseverance it takes to stay clean and keep moving forward.

This is a conversation about resilience. About not giving up. About finding hope even when life adds extra layers of difficulty.

Because recovery doesn’t require perfect circumstances—it requires willingness, connection, and the courage to keep going.

After sitting in the archive for over a year, we’re finally releasing this conversation with Bo S.

Bo was there in the early days. He served as the first World Literature Conference Chair and was one of the members who stepped forward when the question was asked, “Who’s going to write the book?”

The answer he got was simple: “Any addict.”

And Bo said, “Well, I’m an addict.”

He would go on to be one of only two members to attend all seven World Literature Conferences, playing a role in the development of what would become the Basic Text.

This episode wasn’t easy to release.

When we recorded this, Bo’s health was declining. At times he was sharp and clear, and at other times he struggled with details and timelines. Because of that, we held onto this recording for a long time. We wanted to make sure anything we shared respected both the history and Bo.

After going back through the archive and carefully editing this conversation, what remains is something honest and human.

This may not be our cleanest episode but it’s real.

This week on the Living Clean Podcast, we dive headfirst into Step Four: “We made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.”

Our consistent panel returns — Archer, Pete, and Douglas — and we’re joined by two powerful guests, Tim and Dawn, as we break down all things Step Four. We talk about what it really means to be searching. What fearless actually looks like. How to write honestly without drowning in shame. Why resentment, fear, and sex inventories matter. And how this step becomes a turning point in recovery instead of a punishment.

This conversation is real. It’s raw. It’s practical. And it might be the strongest episode in our Step series so far.

If you’ve ever been intimidated by Step Four… If you’ve ever avoided it… If you’re in the middle of it right now…

Do yourself a favor and listen.

This is where freedom begins.

This week’s episode came together in a way that honestly couldn’t have been planned any better.

Francis and I had the opportunity to be together in person at the Texarkana Area Convention in Texarkana, Arkansas, and that alone made this week different. While we were there, we were both involved in different parts of the convention. We did a History of the Basic Text workshop together, I shared on conscious contact, and Francis was scheduled to be the Sunday morning spiritual speaker on the topic “Creative Action of the Spirit.”

All of the topics for the convention were pulled directly from Living Clean: The Journey Continues, and as we were talking through what we were going to do for this week’s episode, Francis mentioned he was having a hard time figuring out what he wanted to say on his topic.

That’s when the idea hit.

Instead of just recording a normal episode, we decided to take advantage of being surrounded by addicts in recovery from all over and do a live, in-person Living Clean study on the section “Creative Action of the Spirit.” We broke it up into its 12 paragraphs and had members from the convention share on different sections.

What came out of that was something powerful. You’ll hear different perspectives, different experiences, and real-time insight from people who don’t normally sit in the same rooms together.

And then we took it one step further.

At the end of this episode, we included Francis’s full Sunday morning message. So what you’re getting is the process and the result. You get to hear the preparation through the study and then hear how that message came to life.

This one is special.

n this episode of the Living Clean Podcast, we continue our book study of Living Clean: The Journey Continues, focusing on the final six paragraphs of the “Illness” section in Chapter 4.

Illness can challenge our recovery in ways we never expected. Physical suffering, fear of the future, and difficult choices can test the spiritual principles we rely on every day. In this conversation, we explore how the tools of recovery help us navigate those moments when life becomes uncertain and painful.

We discuss the importance of reaching out—calling a sponsor, leaning on our support group, and turning to the wisdom found in NA literature such as In Times of Illness. These tools help us make decisions we can live with and take the next right action, even in the middle of crisis.

The episode also explores the spiritual tension many of us feel when illness strikes. We talk about bargaining with God, expectations in prayer, and the powerful shift that happens when we move from demanding outcomes to practicing surrender. Recovery teaches us that our Higher Power is not a vending machine, and that acceptance of life on life’s terms often opens the door to gratitude—even when gratitude feels hardest to find.

We also examine the deeply personal nature of health decisions. Recovery does not give us a single model for how to live, and each of us must find our own balance between caring for ourselves and avoiding the self-destructive patterns of our past. Through honest reflection, inventory, and surrender, we learn how to live according to our values rather than our fears.

Ultimately, this section reminds us that recovery is not about perfection. It is about continually returning to the tools of the program, refining our balance between health and illness, action and acceptance, and learning how to live a life that aligns with our beliefs.

Freedom in recovery means something powerful: we get to live life according to our own choosing and design.

In this episode, Mason and Francis sit down with comedian Mark L., a performer known for bringing humor into recovery spaces and treatment settings across the world.

While respecting the spiritual principle of anonymity, this conversation focuses on experience, strength, and hope — not identity. Mark shares about his past, the role humor played in his recovery, and how laughter can help us talk about the things we once hid, denied, or ran from.

This is an honest discussion about addiction, recovery, perspective, and the power of being able to laugh without minimizing the seriousness of the journey.

If we can laugh about it, we can talk about it. And when we can talk about it, we don’t have to go through it alone.

After nearly five years of persistence, Francis finally tracks down Keith S., and in this special episode, both Mason and Francis sit down with him for a rare and powerful conversation about early Narcotics Anonymous history and service.

Keith was deeply involved in the Ohio fellowship during the early 1980s and attended both the 1982 and 1983 World Service Conferences. He shares firsthand insight into that pivotal era, including the moment he made the motion for Bob Stone to become office manager — a decision that had a lasting impact on NA’s service structure and communication. He also reflects on his experience at the Fifth World Literature Conference in Warren and what the fellowship felt like during one of its most challenging and formative periods.

Mason and Francis explore Keith’s memories of Jim M., discussions around Greg P., and the realities of navigating unity, growth, and difficult transitions within the fellowship at that time. Alongside the history, Keith opens up about his personal recovery journey and what it was like to stay clean and committed to service while NA itself was still evolving.

This episode is a rare blend of fellowship history, personal experience, and deep service perspective — an honest, insightful conversation that captures the spirit, struggles, and resilience of NA during a defining chapter in its development.