In this special episode of The Living Clean Podcast, Mason and Francis take a deep dive into one of the most pivotal moments in the history of Narcotics Anonymous literature.

The Fourth World Literature Conference, held in Santa Monica, California in April 1981, was part of the intense and passionate effort to create a book written by addicts, for addicts. The work done at these conferences helped shape what would eventually become the NA Basic Text, a cornerstone of recovery for addicts around the world.

In the first half of the episode, Mason and Francis break down what led up to the conference, what happened during those historic days in Santa Monica, and why the literature movement inside NA was so important to the fellowship’s growth.

In the second half of the episode, we’re joined by Bob S. and Kathy M., two members who were actually present at the conference. They share their personal memories of participating in the literature effort, the atmosphere in the rooms where addicts were shaping recovery literature, and the challenges and excitement of that moment in NA history.

Their stories bring the conference to life and provide insight into a time when the fellowship was still young, passionate, and determined to create literature that carried the message of recovery.

This episode is part history, part oral archive, and part celebration of the addicts who helped build the foundation of NA literature.

If you’re interested in the origins of the Basic Text, the literature conferences, or the early years of NA service, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

In this episode of The Living Clean Podcast, we continue our journey through Chapter 4 of the Living Clean book as we begin exploring the section on “Disabilities.”

We’re joined by a group of special guests who bring real, lived experience to this conversation. Each of them faces different types of disabilities, and together they help us break down the first half of this powerful section.

This episode dives into what it really looks like to navigate recovery while also managing physical, emotional, or cognitive challenges. Our guests share honestly about the obstacles they’ve faced—but more importantly, they share the strength, courage, and perseverance it takes to stay clean and keep moving forward.

This is a conversation about resilience. About not giving up. About finding hope even when life adds extra layers of difficulty.

Because recovery doesn’t require perfect circumstances—it requires willingness, connection, and the courage to keep going.

After sitting in the archive for over a year, we’re finally releasing this conversation with Bo S.

Bo was there in the early days. He served as the first World Literature Conference Chair and was one of the members who stepped forward when the question was asked, “Who’s going to write the book?”

The answer he got was simple: “Any addict.”

And Bo said, “Well, I’m an addict.”

He would go on to be one of only two members to attend all seven World Literature Conferences, playing a role in the development of what would become the Basic Text.

This episode wasn’t easy to release.

When we recorded this, Bo’s health was declining. At times he was sharp and clear, and at other times he struggled with details and timelines. Because of that, we held onto this recording for a long time. We wanted to make sure anything we shared respected both the history and Bo.

After going back through the archive and carefully editing this conversation, what remains is something honest and human.

This may not be our cleanest episode but it’s real.