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Why Distance Learning?

Why Distance Learning?

By: Seth Fleischauer Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring
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 Why Distance Learning? is a podcast about the decisions, design choices, and assumptions that determine whether live virtual learning becomes shallow and transactional—or meaningful, relational, and effective at scale. The show is designed for education leaders, instructional designers, and system-level practitioners responsible for adopting, scaling, and sustaining virtual, hybrid, and online learning models. Each episode examines the structural conditions under which distance learning actually works—and the predictable reasons it fails when it doesn’t. Through conversations with researchers, experienced practitioners, and field-shaping leaders, Why Distance Learning? translates research, field evidence, and lived experience into decision-relevant insight. Episodes surface real tradeoffs, near-failures, and hard-won lessons, equipping listeners with clear framing and language they can use to explain, defend, or redesign distance learning models in real organizational contexts. Hosted by Seth Fleischauer of Banyan Global Learning, and Allyson Mitchell and Tami Moehring of the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, the podcast challenges outdated narratives about distance learning and explores what becomes possible when live virtual education is designed intentionally, human-centered, and grounded in evidence.© 2024 Why Distance Learning?
Episodes
  • #79 Eight Steps To Make Synchronous Online Learning Really Work with Dr. Helaine Marshall

    #79 Eight Steps To Make Synchronous Online Learning Really Work with Dr. Helaine Marshall
    Apr 27 2026
    In this episode of Why Distance Learning, your hosts talk with Dr. Helaine Marshall — retired professor of education at Long Island University Hudson and creator of SOFLA, the Synchronous Online Flipped Learning Approach — about the pedagogy most online courses never get around to designing, and what it costs when they don't. Drawing on five years of development work, Community of Inquiry theory, and her own linguistics teaching, Helaine walks through an eight-step cycle that treats synchronous virtual instruction as its own medium rather than a degraded version of in-person teaching. The reframe at the center of the conversation: online learning isn't a tool problem, it's a design problem — and empowerment isn't something teachers do to students, it's what happens when the conditions are built for it.Together, the hosts and Helaine explore why most virtual classrooms default to lecture-over-Zoom, the eight-step SOFLA cycle that weaves asynchronous pre-work with structured synchronous sessions, the two steps that actually determine whether it succeeds (the SHAC share-out protocol and "preview and discovery"), the control issues that make teachers resist the model, and how SOFLA adapts across content areas — from linguistics to Boyle's Law — and age groups. They also work through Helaine's four E's framework — equity, enrichment, engagement, empowerment — and a single linguistic observation that reframes how to think about agency in virtual classrooms: empowerment is not a transitive verb.Key TopicsThe eight-step SOFLA cycle: pre-work, sign-in, whole group application, breakouts, share-out, preview and discovery, assignment instructions, reflectionWhy pedagogy outlasts tech tools — and why most online teaching skips pedagogy entirelyThe SHAC protocol for accountable, substantive peer feedback"Preview and discovery" as the motivational hinge between lessonsThe four E's: equity, enrichment, engagement, empowermentP-P-R-R (patience, persistence, reflection, renewal) for teachers new to the modelAdapting SOFLA across content areas, age groups, and even in-person classrooms4. Links & ResourcesSOFLA® (book, forthcoming May 2026) — Helaine W. Marshall and Ilka Kostka, University of Michigan Press, Brief Instructional Guide Series: https://press.umich.edu/Books/S/SOFLA-RHelaine's SOFLA hub — overview, training team, and resources: https://malpeducation.com/sofla/Helaine's bio and full publication list — https://malpeducation.com/our-experts/helaine-w-marshall/"Fostering Teaching Presence through the Synchronous Online Flipped Learning Approach" — Marshall & Kostka, TESL-EJ, Vol. 24 (open access): https://tesl-ej.org/wordpress/issues/volume24/ej94/ej94int/Breaking New Ground for SLIFE: The Mutually Adaptive Learning Paradigm, 2nd ed. (2023) — Helaine's other signature framework (MALP), University of Michigan PressMeeting the Needs of SLIFE: A Guide for Educators, 2nd ed. — Marshall, DeCapua, and Tang, University of Michigan PressPerusall — the social annotation platform Helaine uses for pre-work: https://www.perusall.com/Flipped Learning Network — founded by Jon Bergmann and Aaron Sams, referenced as the origin of flipped learning: https://flippedlearning.org/Community of Inquiry framework — Garrison, Anderson & Archer, the theoretical grounding for teaching presence: https://coi.athabascau.ca/CILC — Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration: https://cilc.orgBanyan Global Learning — https://banyangloballearning.com/global-learning-live/Guest Bio: Dr. Helaine W. MarshallDr. Helaine W. Marshall is the creator of two instructional frameworks — SOFLA (Synchronous Online Flipped Learning Approach) and MALP (Mutually Adaptive Learning Paradigm) — and currently serves as president of MALP, LLC, where she trains educators on both models. Her work centers on culturally responsive-sustaining education and online flipped learning, particularly for teachers working with language learners and students whose prior schooling has been disrupted. She is retired Professor of Education and Director of Language Education Programs at Long Island University – Hudson, has published three books with University of Michigan Press, and received the 2023 Lifetime Achievement Award from New York State TESOL.About the Hosts: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of Why Distance Learning. Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered distance learning the podcast explores. See https://banyangloballearning.com/Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell work with CILC, the Center for Interactive Learning and Collaboration, to help educators implement high-quality live virtual learning experiences across grade levels. Discover more at CILC.org.
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    45 mins
  • #78 The Next Shutdown Is Coming. Are You Ready? with Michael Barbour (Part 2 of 2)

    #78 The Next Shutdown Is Coming. Are You Ready? with Michael Barbour (Part 2 of 2)
    Apr 13 2026

    This is the second of a two-part conversation with Michael Barbour, one of the most cited researchers in K-12 distance and online learning. Michael is assistant dean for academic innovation and integration at Touro University California, and has spent nearly three decades studying the design, delivery, and support of K-12 distance, online, and blended learning — as well as the policy and governance structures that shape it. If you haven't listened to part one yet, start there.

    In this episode, we examine an assumption that surfaced repeatedly during the pandemic: that because distance learning has been around for decades, schools should have been ready. Michael has the data on why they weren't — and why, despite a global wake-up call, most still aren't. The numbers are striking: less than 10% of teacher preparation programs included any meaningful content on K-12 online learning even after COVID. And as Michael makes clear, the next disruption — whether pandemic, weather event, or political unrest — is not a question of if, but when.

    From there, the conversation takes a surprising turn. Michael shares a counterintuitive research finding: students who had K-12 online learning experience actually performed worse as online learners at the university level — and he unpacks exactly why that happened and what it reveals about the difference between synchronous and asynchronous program design. He also walks through one of the most compelling real-world models of synchronous distance learning in K-12 — the Center for Distance Learning and Innovation in Newfoundland — and what it would actually take to replicate that kind of intentional design at scale.

    "Every single one of your listeners, unless they plan on retiring in the next year or two, will likely experience another regional or global pandemic. And that's just on the pandemic side." — Michael Barbour

    Topics covered:

    • ~1:30 — Bridging policy, pedagogy, and technology: why hopes and prayers aren't a strategy
    • ~3:20 — What the National Education Technology Plans have been saying since 1996
    • ~4:20 — The teacher preparation gap: the numbers before, during, and after COVID
    • ~7:20 — The history of pandemics and why every educator needs distance learning skills
    • ~13:20 — A counterintuitive finding: why K-12 online experience made university online learners worse
    • ~19:20 — Synchronous vs. asynchronous design and the CDLI model
    • ~28:20 — Why distance learning matters for every educator, not just virtual school teachers

    Links and resources:

    • MichaelBarbour.com - all of Michael's research
    • A Vision for K-12 Online and Blended Learning in Teacher Education — the teacher preparation work referenced in this episode
    • Part 1 of this conversation is available now — start there if you haven't already.
    1. Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
    2. Seth Fleischauer's Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience. See https://www.banyangloballearning.com/
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    34 mins
  • #77 Stop Looking for Best Practices: What the Research Actually Says with Michael Barbour (Part 1 of 2)

    #77 Stop Looking for Best Practices: What the Research Actually Says with Michael Barbour (Part 1 of 2)
    Mar 30 2026

    This is the first of a two-part conversation with Michael Barbour, one of the most cited researchers in K-12 distance and online learning. Michael is assistant dean for academic innovation and integration at Touro University California, and has spent nearly three decades studying the design, delivery, and support of K-12 distance, online, and blended learning — as well as the policy and governance structures that shape it. His work has brought him before legislatures and policymakers around the world.

    In this episode, we put a foundational assumption on the table: that research gives teachers answers. Michael makes a clear and generous case that it doesn't — and that both researchers and classroom teachers share responsibility for that misunderstanding. The distinction he draws between best practices and promising practices isn't semantic. It has real consequences for how leaders build cultures of evidence-informed decision-making, and how teachers are trained to engage with research in the first place.

    From there, the conversation moves into some of the most persistent misconceptions in the field — including the idea that distance learning only works for certain types of students, and the often-overlooked role that local support plays in whether any online program succeeds or fails. Michael also challenges the assumption that face-to-face teachers have a natural engagement advantage over their online counterparts, and makes a compelling case for why the distance environment may actually offer more tools for meaningful connection — not fewer.

    "The best that we can hope for in all honesty is that research might lead us to a promising practice as a starting point." — Michael Barbour

    Topics covered:

    • 00:00 — Michael's origin story in K-12 distance learning
    • ~04:00 — Why teachers don't engage with research, and why researchers share the blame
    • ~10:00 — Best practices vs. promising practices: why the distinction matters
    • ~17:00 — Who distance learning actually works for
    • ~21:00 — The role of local support in online program design
    • ~24:00 — Engagement, belonging, and the myth of the visual cue
    • ~30:00 — What "personalized learning" actually looks like in K-12 online contexts

    Links and resources:

    • DLAC Research Agenda Summary — referenced early in the conversation
    • NEPC Newsletter: AI and Personalization in K-12 Online Learning — Michael's recent piece on what personalized learning actually means in practice
    • Discover more virtual learning opportunities at CILC.org with hosts Tami Moehring and Allyson Mitchell.
    • Seth Fleischauer’s Banyan Global Learning combines live virtual field trips with international student collaborations for a unique K12 global learning experience.
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    38 mins
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