In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Kathryn L. Tucker, J.D., a leading civil rights attorney and advocate for end-of-life autonomy, about the legal effort to expand access to psilocybin-assisted therapy for patients facing serious illness.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-353/?ref=278

Kathryn shares how decades of work in right-to-die litigation led her to recognize a critical gap in palliative care, addressing psychological and existential suffering at the end of life. Drawing from emerging clinical research, she explains why psilocybin may offer meaningful relief for anxiety, depression, and distress in terminal patients.

The conversation explores the legal pathways being pursued to make this treatment accessible, including Right to Try laws, federal litigation with the DEA, and efforts to reschedule psilocybin. Kathryn also reflects on the broader cultural and ethical implications of allowing individuals greater choice in how they approach death.

Kathryn L. Tucker, JD, is a nationally recognized leader in advancing improved care for seriously ill and dying patients. She has held leadership roles across multiple nonprofit organizations, including the National Psychedelics Association, the End of Life Liberty Project, and Compassion & Choices. Tucker has litigated landmark cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, including Washington v. Glucksberg and Vacco v. Quill, and has played a key role in both end-of-life litigation and psychedelic policy advocacy.

Highlights:

• Right to Try laws explained
• Psilocybin as investigational medicine
• DEA barriers to patient access
• Litigation strategies for psychedelic access
• Rescheduling psilocybin efforts
• Palliative care gaps in mental suffering
• Legal vs underground psychedelic

Episode Links:

• National Psychedelics Association
• Kathryn's LinkedIn

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Healing Before Leading: Psychedelics and Political Integrity

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Laura Dunn, civil rights attorney and congressional candidate, about trauma, leadership, and the role of psychedelic healing.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-352/?ref=278

Laura shares how her work advocating for survivors led her to confront the deeper limitations of legal and institutional systems. While policy change can create meaningful protections, it often fails to address the underlying trauma individuals carry.

They explore how psychedelic experiences became part of her personal healing journey, and how that informs her approach to leadership, public service, and political integrity.

Laura Dunn is an award-winning civil rights attorney, former public school teacher, and congressional candidate in New York's 12th District. She helped shape Title IX protections, contributed to the Violence Against Women Act reauthorization, and founded SurvJustice, a nonprofit supporting survivors of sexual violence. Her work bridges advocacy, policy, and trauma-informed leadership.

Highlights:

• From survivor advocacy to policy reform
• Limits of legal systems in trauma healing
• Why leadership requires inner work
• Psychedelics as tools for self-awareness
• Breaking stigma in political leadership
• Bipartisan support for reform
• Veterans and policy momentum
• Trauma and leadership integrity
• A vision for conscious governance

Episode Links:

• Laura Dunn (Congress campaign Instagram)
• SurvJustice (founded by Laura Dunn)

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Western Philosophy on Drugs: Consciousness, Dreams, and Reality

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Justin Smith-Ruiu about how psychedelic experiences challenge long-standing assumptions about consciousness, perception, and reality.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-351/?ref=278

Justin explains how Western philosophy has historically privileged rational, sober, and waking states of mind, often dismissing dreams and altered states as unreliable. He explores how psychedelic experiences push against these assumptions, raising deeper questions about knowledge, language, and what counts as real.

The conversation also examines the tension between therapeutic and existential uses of psychedelics, and how medicalization may shape the cultural role these substances play moving forward.

Justin Smith-Ruiu is a professor of history and philosophy of science at the Université Paris Cité and author of On Drugs: Psychedelics, Philosophy, and the Nature of Reality. His work explores intellectual history, consciousness, and the limits of rational thought, and he writes regularly for Harper's, WIRED, and The New York Times.

Highlights:

• How philosophy excludes altered states
• Why dreams are dismissed as unreliable
• Psychedelics and limits of rationality
• Language and ineffability of experience
• Therapeutic vs existential frameworks
• Medicalization and cultural impact
• Philosophy beyond sober cognition

Episode Links:

• Justin Smith-Ruiu's website

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.