Episodes

  • China’s Strategy for Trump (w/Kurt Campbell)

    China’s Strategy for Trump (w/Kurt Campbell)
    May 13 2026
    President Trump heads to Beijing for a high-stakes summit with Xi Jinping at a moment of growing instability in the Middle East and rising anxiety across Asia. In this episode, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to preview the summit and discuss: Why China increasingly believes the United States is in decline Xi Jinping’s read of Donald Trump Whether Trump might shift U.S. policy on Taiwan or semiconductor export controls How the Iran war is factoring into China’s strategy What comes next in the U.S.-China competition Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube. Transcript here. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. REFERENCES & SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIALS: “How China hopes to win from the war,” The Economist, April 1, 2026. "The Stakes of Trump vs. Xi," Kurt Campbell, Foreign Affairs, May 2026. “Xi Is Planning for China’s Final Victory Over the U.S.,” The New York Times, Julian Gerwirtz, May 13, 2026. “What a former CIA analyst reveals about a potential China fight,” Max Book Interview with John Culver, The Washington Post, May 11, 2026 “U.S. Intelligence Shows Iran Retains Substantial Missile Capabilities,” Adam Entous, Maggie Haberman, and Jonathan Swan, The New York Times, May 12, 2026. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 10 mins
  • Iran War & Trump’s Europe Troop Drawdown: What Comes Next?

    Iran War & Trump’s Europe Troop Drawdown: What Comes Next?
    May 7 2026
    Iran war developments, including new signs of a potential deal, UAE’s withdrawal from OPEC, and what weeks of conflict have revealed about U.S. leverage. In this episode, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer discuss: - Why a deal with Iran may be inevitable but harder to reach now - How markets, military risks, and politics are shaping Trump’s strategy - Warnings about depleted U.S. munitions - Why the UAE is leaving OPEC and what it says about tensions with Saudi Arabia - A Red Team/Blue Team debate on in U.S. reducing troops in Europe Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript available here. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 11 mins
  • China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)

    China’s Engineering State vs. America’s Lawyerly Society (w/Dan Wang)
    Apr 29 2026
    Dan Wang, author of Breakneck, breaks down the divide between China’s “engineering state” and America’s “lawyerly society” and what that means for the future of U.S.-China competition. Wang joined Jake and Jon before a live audience at the Endless Frontiers conference in Austin, Texas. In this episode: - Why China builds at scale and why the U.S. often struggles to keep up - The strengths and limits of China’s model, from manufacturing to social policy - A closer look at Xi Jinping’s leadership and decision-making - Why “process knowledge” is key to rebuilding American capacity Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript coming soon. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 10 mins
  • Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)

    Debating the War in Iran and U.S. Strategy (w/H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger)
    Apr 22 2026
    H.R. McMaster and Matt Pottinger, former National Security Adviser and Deputy National Security Adviser to President Trump in his first administration, join Jake and Jon for a wide-ranging conversation on Iran, China, and how national security decisions get made at the highest level. Drawing on their time in the White House, they debate the decision to go to war with Iran, the nature of Iran’s nuclear program, and what a successful outcome would even look like. As McMaster puts it, “a lot of times you’re looking at the least bad option.” Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript coming soon. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 18 mins
  • John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy

    John Kerry on Iran, Israel, and Diplomacy
    Apr 16 2026
    Former Secretary of State John Kerry, who has spent more time negotiating with Iranian leaders than anyone, joins Jake and Jon to discuss the marathon diplomacy efforts that resulted in the JCPOA, Trump’s decision to strike Iran, the likelihood of a deal, the prospects for a two state solution between Israel and Palestinians, and the future of the U.S.-Israel relationship. Then, Jake and Jon discuss Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s surprising defeat in Hungary’s election and what his loss means for the MAGA movement, Trump’s relationship to Europe’s far right, and Ukraine. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. For show notes and transcripts, find and follow us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Thomas Imo/Photothek via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 15 mins
  • Iran Ceasefire Explained: Winners, Losers, and What Comes Next

    Iran Ceasefire Explained: Winners, Losers, and What Comes Next
    Apr 9 2026
    Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down the ceasefire between the United States and Iran, announced Tuesday evening. They walk through how the deal came together from President Trump’s escalating rhetoric to Pakistan’s role as an unlikely intermediary and assess what the ceasefire actually is, and what it isn’t. They also break down the deeper questions about what the U.S. achieved, what Iran gained, and how this reshapes the strategic balance going forward. Topics discussed: What the ceasefire includes and address the major gaps that remain Why Iran’s control over the Strait of Hormuz may be the most important outcome of the war What could come out of the upcoming negotiations, including the future of Iran’s nuclear stockpile The impact of the war on U.S. deterrence, military readiness, and global credibility The broader implications for Russia, China, NATO, and the U.S.-Israel relationship At the end of the episode, Jake and Jon open up the Long Game mailbag for the first time, answering listener questions on targeted assassinations, Russia’s status as a great power, what’s next for Cuba, and why they started the podcast after leaving the government. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. Show notes are available here. Transcript available here. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 13 mins
  • Trump's Iran Speech & Debating the Deal

    Trump's Iran Speech & Debating the Deal
    Apr 2 2026
    One month into the war with Iran, President Trump addressed the nation in prime time — but instead of clarity, the same big questions remain about how this war ends. This week, Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer break down what the president said, what he didn’t say, and what it reveals about where this war is heading. They then take on a Red Team / Blue Team exercise: Jon argues to Iran’s leadership that it should take the deal; Jake makes the hardline case that Iran should stand firm and let America suffer. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube. For show notes and transcripts, find and follow us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo credit: Photographer: Alex Brandon/AP Photo/Bloomberg via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 14 mins
  • "Chasing the Dragon" In Iran (with Sen. Ruben Gallego)

    "Chasing the Dragon" In Iran (with Sen. Ruben Gallego)
    Mar 27 2026
    Senator Ruben Gallego, a Marine veteran of the Iraq War and U.S. Senator from Arizona, joins Jake and Jon to discuss the war in Iran and Congress’s role in decisions of war and peace. Drawing on his experience in one of the hardest-hit units of the Iraq War, Gallego warns that Washington risks repeating the same mistakes. His bottom line: “The best way to support the troops is don’t send us to stupid wars.” They discuss: - How Congress has ceded its war powers to the executive branch and why lawmakers often avoid taking responsibility for decisions on war - The dangers of escalation, and how conflicts can take on a momentum of their own and risk what Gallego calls “chasing the dragon” - What a potential U.S. military operation against Iran could actually look like, and why even “limited” missions may be far more dangerous than expected - Jake and Jon also reflect on their own experience seeking congressional authorization for strikes in Syria, and break down the narrowing set of options facing President Trump, from escalation to a potential off-ramp, and the role of politics, markets, and public opinion in shaping what comes next. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. Watch the video of this episode on YouTube.Show notes are available here. Transcript here. Join us on Substack. Email Jake and Jon at longgame@voxmedia.com. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. REFERENCES AND SUPPLEMENTAL MATERIALS: Lost: Amelia Earhart’s Three Mysterious Deaths and One Extraordinary Life, by Rachel Hartigan The Hour of the Predator: Encounters with the Autocrats and Tech Billionaires Taking Over the World, by Giuliano da Empoli Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 3 mins