What does divorce look like through the eyes of a child — and decades later, through the eyes of an adult? This week, Karen welcomes Kate Liles, who grew up navigating life across two households after her parents divorced when she was just a year old. Kate shares her story with honesty and grace, offering a rare, firsthand look at the lasting impact of the decisions parents make during and after divorce.

Kate and Karen explore the do's and don'ts that shaped Kate's childhood: the split holidays and double birthday parties, the toys that weren't allowed to cross between homes, the emotional labor of playing referee between parents — and the extended family members and step-parents who complicated things further. Kate also reflects on the long shadow of parental conflict, the challenge of building her own marriage as a child of divorce, and the moment at her college graduation when she witnessed something she'd waited more than three decades to see.

A cautionary tale and a story of resilience, this episode is a reminder that children aren't just caught in the middle of divorce — they carry it with them long after it's over. And as Kate says: your kids will be okay. But the choices you make now matter more than you know.

The Good Divorce is hosted by Karen McNenny, author, mediator, and divorce consultant. For more, visit karenmcnenny.com, and pick up Karen's new book, The Good Divorce: How to End Your Marriage Without Ending Your Family.

Karen revisits a Father's Day conversation with Patrick Duganz, who has spent over a decade as the father engagement specialist at the Gallatin City-County Health Department in Bozeman, Montana. Patrick talks candidly about why dads often arrive at parenthood underprepared, how a lack of targeted support for fathers shows up in everything from home visiting programs to divorce proceedings, and what it looks like when a dad gets the help he needs just in time. His story about "Bob" — a new single dad on the verge of giving up — is one for the books. A warm, practical, and deeply human conversation about supporting fathers so they can show up fully for their kids.

Connect with Karen at karenmcnenny.com

Divorce coach Kelly Myers knows what it looks like when the system fails families — because she lived it. When Kelly and her husband divorced in 2011–2012, their three boys were six, eight, and ten years old. What followed was two years of litigation and more than $100,000 in legal costs — a path she didn't fully understand she was choosing when she stepped into it.

In this candid and deeply personal conversation, Kelly shares how the "ecosystem of divorce" — mediators, attorneys, friends, and family — can fan the flames of conflict rather than help families restructure. Her mediator told her not to worry about financial inequities; her attorney didn't tell her that pursuing support modifications would reopen custody. The result: years of stress, resentment, and a version of herself she's not proud of — one who was yelling in the car on the way to her son's eighth-grade graduation, too overwhelmed to simply be present.

Kelly reflects on the turning point that came when she stopped focusing on what was fair and started asking what was right for her kids. She and her co-parent Blake eventually built a respectful, collaborative relationship — one that was tested profoundly when their son Jack passed away in June 2024 after years of struggle with mental health and addiction. Rather than letting grief pull them apart, Kelly and Blake came together to plan Jack's service, support their surviving sons, and hold each other through unimaginable loss. That experience crystallized for Kelly why this work matters so much.

Now a certified divorce and co-parenting coach, Kelly helps clients understand the realities of the divorce system before they're swept into it — managing emotions outside of decision-making, building comprehensive parenting plans, and thinking about co-parenting not just as a legal arrangement but as a long-term business partnership in raising their children.

Key themes in this episode:

• How the divorce ecosystem — lawyers, mediators, social circles — shapes (and often inflames) outcomes
• Why litigation risks are rarely explained to clients up front
• The shift from "what's fair" to "what does my child's divorce story look like?"
• Viewing co-parenting as a business partnership, not a custody arrangement
• The difference between parenting 50% of the time and being a parent 100% of the time
• Repairing the relationship with your kids — and yourself — even after difficult chapters
• The gift of a co-parenting relationship strong enough to hold a family together through loss

Resources & Websites Mentioned:

• First Steps Divorce — Kelly Myers' coaching practice: firststepsdivorce.com
• The Good Divorce Podcast — hosted by Karen McNenny: karenmcnenny.com
• The Good Divorce by Karen McNenny — available wherever books are sold