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Product for Product Management

Product for Product Management

By: Matt Green & Moshe Mikanovsky
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About this listen

 Product for Product is a show hosted by Matt Green and Moshe Mikanovsky aimed at helping listeners navigate the growing depth of product management tools while also providing our insights into the categories that make up the PM role. We will take listeners with us on a journey of discovery through areas of product analytics, road mapping, productivity and many others. If you want to keep up with the latest in product management come along for the ride!

Connect with us on LinkedIn:
https://linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct
https://linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky

Connect with us on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/@productforproductCopyright Matt Green & Moshe Mikanovsky Economics
Episodes
  • EP 152 - From Project to Product Mode with Thomas Hartmann

    EP 152 - From Project to Product Mode with Thomas Hartmann
    Apr 15 2026
    We’re joined by Thomas Hartmann, co‑founder of Product Masterclass and co-author of From Project to Product Mode: A Game Plan to Unlock Scalability for B2B Software Products, for a candid look at why so many B2B software companies get stuck in “project mode” and what it really takes to become product‑led.Thomas shares his journey from entrepreneurship and lean startup experiments in San Francisco and Munich and to working with large organizations trying (and often failing) to scale.

    Over years of coaching and transformation work, he and his co‑founder and co-author, Sebastian Borggrewe, saw the same pattern: teams with a strong product mindset trapped inside companies that still behave like project shops, where sales and single big clients dictate the roadmap and success is measured by project delivery, not product outcomes.

    Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Thomas:
    - How to recognize whether your company is truly in project mode or product mode


    - Why B2B software behaves very differently from B2C when making this shift


    - The “egg” analogy: product teams as the yolk, surrounded by an environment (the egg white) that often doesn’t care how things get built, only that they ship


    - The seven areas that fundamentally differ between project and product companies: segmentation, pricing, discovery, prioritization, engineering, configuration, and product management structures


    - Concrete signs of project mode: sales defining what to build, time‑and‑materials pricing, no real discovery, prioritization driven by the loudest customer, and PMs blocked from end users


    - Why not every company needs to become a product company, and why it’s a strategic choice, not dogma


    - A step‑by‑step path to move from project to product mode:


    - Step 1: Align leadership and name the current state (you are a project org)


    - Step 2: Find alignment among all product leaders on what to change


    - Step 3: Prioritize which of the seven areas to tackle first (you can’t fix everything at once)


    - Step 4: Enable the workforce and shift the surrounding “egg white,” not just product team skills


    - How AI fits differently in project vs. product organizations: as a delivery accelerator in one, and as a strategic validation and discovery tool in the other


    - Why tools like Claude Code can help PMs brainstorm, validate, and visualize, but won’t fix a broken mindset or culture


    - And much more!


    Want to learn more or work with Thomas?
    - Product Masterclass: https://www.product-masterclas...
    - From Project to Product Mode book: https://www.product-masterclass.com/book-project-to-product
    - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/th...


    You can also connect with us and find more episodes:
    - Product for Product Podcast:

    http://linkedin.com/company/pr...
    - Matt Green:

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/ma...
    - Moshe Mikanovsky:

    http://www.linkedin.com/in/mik...
    Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way.

    Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
    Show More Show Less
    59 mins
  • EP 151 - Gender Based Data Analytics with Lea Khasidi

    EP 151 - Gender Based Data Analytics with Lea Khasidi
    Apr 1 2026
    We’re excited to welcome Lea Khasidi, product management freelancer, founder and CEO of MaPott, and soon‑to‑be author, for a powerful conversation on gender-based data analytics for product managers.

    Lea shares her journey from intelligence work in the IDF, through product roles in EdTech, cybersecurity, and beyond, to founding a health management app for women with chronic conditions. Along the way, one pivotal discovery while consolidating four cybersecurity platforms, seeing men and women use the same filtering feature in completely different ways, sparked her deep focus on how gender shapes behavior in our products, especially in B2B contexts where it’s often ignored.

    Join Matt and Moshe as they explore with Lea:
    • How a real-world analytics puzzle revealed stark gender differences in workflow, and changed how she thinks about usage data

    • The three pillars of context we can’t change (who users are, how they act, where they work) and the one we can: what we give them in the product

    • How “hacks” and workarounds used by different genders can hint at your next features

    • A practical system for existing products: using analytics to segment by gender, spotting behavioral differences, then following up with observation and interviews

    • How to approach gender representation when validating new products, and why balanced samples matter even for seemingly “neutral” tools

    • Ways to lean on existing research about gender patterns in your domain (health, education, finance, etc.) instead of guessing from scratch

    • Why early-stage startups should ship faster and learn from usage, while mature products might rely more on A/B tests and targeted outreach

    • The risk of building solely from our own biases and assumptions, and why gender should be on the PM checklist, even if it’s not always the first lens

    • Lea’s upcoming book on gender-based analytics for PMs

    • One piece of advice she has for founders learning to trust their insight while staying open to the data

    • And much more!

    Want to connect with Lea or learn more?
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lea-khasidi/
    • Website: https://leakhasidi.com
    • MaPott: https://www.ma-pott.com/

    You can also connect with us and find more episodes:
    • Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast

    • Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/

    • Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky

    Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way.

    Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
    Show More Show Less
    49 mins
  • EP 150 - OHLA Framework with Radhika Dutt

    EP 150 - OHLA Framework with Radhika Dutt
    Mar 18 2026
    We’re delighted to welcome Radhika Dutt, product leader, founder, and author of Radical Product Thinking, for a deep dive into her newest work: the OHLA (formerly OHL) Toolkit.

    In this episode, Radhika joins Matt and Moshe to challenge how product teams set goals, measure progress, and use frameworks, proposing a puzzle‑driven alternative to traditional OKRs and “framework-following” culture.

    Drawing from her journey from electrical engineering and startups at MIT, through painful “product diseases” like Hero Syndrome and Obsessive Sales Disorder, Radhika shares why recipes and templates alone don’t create real progress. Instead, she introduces OHLA as a lightweight but powerful way to cultivate a Jedi mindset, one that keeps teams grounded in first principles, context, and learning rather than chasing vanity metrics and rigid targets.

    Join Matt, Moshe, and Radhika as they explore:
    • Radhika’s path from engineering and founding to Radical Product Thinking and now the OHLA Toolkit

    • Why classic goal‑setting and OKRs often backfire, creating “alibi progress,” outdated goals, and incentives to hide bad news

    • OHLA in practice:

      • Observe – what’s really happening in your product, team, or market

      • Hypothesize – what might explain it and how you’ll test those ideas

      • Learn – what the results actually tell you

      • Adapt – how you’ll change course based on evidence

    • “Puzzle setting” vs goal setting: defining puzzles with Observation, Open Questions, and an Objective summary to stay longer in the problem space

    • How OHLA complements design thinking by forcing teams to remain curious and uncomfortable before jumping into solutions

    • Practical stories, from maritime platforms to enterprise teams, where puzzle thinking led to very different solutions than OKR‑driven targets

    • How managers can shift conversations from “Did we hit the number?” to “How well did it work? What did we learn? What will we try next?”

    • A realistic path to transition: starting with your own puzzle, then introducing OHLA within your immediate sphere of influence

    • And much more!

    Want to explore the OHLA Toolkit or connect with Radhika?
    • OHLA Toolkit: https://www.radicalproduct.com/toolkit/#OHLToolkit

    • Radical Product site: https://www.radicalproduct.com/

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/radhikadutt/

    You can also connect with us and find more episodes:
    • Product for Product Podcast: http://linkedin.com/company/product-for-product-podcast

    • Matt Green: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattgreenproduct/

    • Moshe Mikanovsky: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikanovsky

    Note: Any views mentioned in the podcast are the sole views of our hosts and guests, and do not represent the products mentioned in any way.

    Please leave us a review and feedback ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
    Show More Show Less
    54 mins
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