The future of AI isn't a smarter chatbot. It's a model that watches your screen, listens to the room, and acts on what it sees. We dug into Thinking Machines' new interaction model, what it means for compute, and the layoff wave that's already here.This week's roundtable: Anastasios Angelopoulos (CEO of Arena, formerly LMArena), Nick Harris (CEO of Lightmatter, photonic computing chips), and Philip Johnston (CEO of StarCloud, building megawatt data centers in space).

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Timestamps:

0:00 Cold open

1:21 Welcome to Episode 13

2:51 Is China closing the AI gap? Arena's data

5:16 Lightmatter and the photonic interconnect bottleneck

9:42 StarCloud 2, Nvidia Space Ruben 1, and orbital data centers

17:24 Thinking Machines' interaction model: what's actually new

28:22 Whisper Flow and the 3-pedal desk setup

33:48 Real-time desktop and camera awareness as the real unlock

40:25 Why this 100x's compute demand

42:43 The polarization of compute and $10M personal data centers

49:25 The layoff wave: Cloudflare, PayPal, Coinbase, Upwork

54:48 The 10x gap between AI-first and non-AI-first employees

59:52 Unlimited agency and the abundance future

1:00:46 Anthropic's Project Luna runs a retail store

1:03:45 Decoupling labor from value creation

1:05:03 P(doom) round

🔗 Guests:

Anastasios Angelopoulos, Arena: https://arena.ai | @ML_Angelopolous

Nick Harris, Lightmatter: https://lightmatter.co

Philip Johnston, StarCloud: https://starcloud.com | @philipjohnston

🔗 Referenced in this episode:

Thinking Machines, Introducing Interaction Models: https://thinkingmachines.ai/blog/interaction-models/

LMArena leaderboard: https://lmarena.ai

Lightmatter: https://lightmatter.co

Starcloud: https://www.starcloud.com

TechCrunch, Cloudflare says AI made 1,100 jobs obsolete: https://techcrunch.com/2026/05/08/cloudflare-says-ai-made-1100-jobs-obsolete-even-as-revenue-hit-a-record-high/

Fast Company, Tech layoffs this week due to AI (Cloudflare, PayPal, Coinbase, Upwork): https://www.fastcompany.com/91538995/tech-layoffs-due-to-ai-this-week-cloudflare-paypal-coinbase-upwork

Bloomberg, South Korea floats citizen dividend from AI profits: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2026-05-12/korea-s-massive-ai-boom-triggers-call-for-tech-tax-roiling-market

PYMNTS, Inside a retail store run entirely by AI (Andon Labs / Luna): https://www.pymnts.com/artificial-intelligence-2/2026/inside-a-retail-store-run-entirely-by-ai/

Wispr Flow (voice-to-text tool Jason uses): https://wisprflow.ai

Fermi Paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

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