You did everything right. You communicated. You tried. You listened to your gut. And it still ended.

This week Lisa and Heather DeSiena get into the part nobody really talks about — what happens when a relationship ends not because of some dramatic blow-up, but because you were brave enough to be honest with yourself. Heather opens up about being engaged twice in her thirties, walking away from a wedding with eight weeks to go, and the particular kind of loneliness that comes when the life you planned just... doesn't happen that way.

In this episode:

• The sunk cost trap — why "we've invested so much time" is the worst reason to stay
• What Heather's corporate negotiation career taught her about walking away from a bad deal (yes, even at the altar)
• The silent treatment: petty power move or nervous system self-preservation? (Spoiler: Lisa and Heather have both done it, and neither is judging you)
• Why the people you expect to show up when things fall apart are often the first ones to go quiet
• "No deal is better than a bad deal" — and why this might be the most important relationship advice nobody gives you

This one gets real. Like, really real. Both Lisa and Heather show up as full humans in this conversation, which is exactly what makes it worth your hour.

Part 3 is coming — and we're getting into modern dating, the app fatigue spiral, and a live matchmaking situation that you genuinely do not want to miss.

If this episode has you doing some honest reflecting, grab Lisa's free Evaluate Your Relationship workbook at lisamitchell.biz/podcast. No judgment. Just good questions.

Connect with Heather:

https://www.heatherdesiena.com

https://www.instagram.com/heatherdesiena

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherdesiena

TEXT ME! Let me know what you think of this episode or what topics you would like to see covered next!

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Have a comment for me or a topic you want to see covered on the podcast? Email me at lisa@lisamitchell.biz

Connect with me on Instagram at @divorcecurioushelp

What if the same skills that close a seven-figure deal could also save you from your next kitchen table meltdown? Spoiler: they absolutely can — and this week's guest is living proof.

Lisa sits down with Heather DeSiena — former news anchor, corporate negotiator, keynote speaker, and (plot twist) seminary master's degree holder — to talk about what she calls heart-level negotiation. Turns out, whether you're closing a business deal or trying to have a hard conversation with your partner without it going completely sideways, you're working with the exact same stuff: people, emotions, and the desperate hope that someone in the room stays regulated.

In this episode:

• Why "soft skills" is a terrible term — and why these are actually the most important skills you have
• How to enter a hard conversation with intention instead of just feelings and vibes
• What somatic awareness has to do with your next argument (your body knows before your brain does)
• The pattern interruption trick that can stop a scripted fight before it even starts
• Why the more emotionally aware partner carries extra responsibility — unfair as that is

Heather is one of those guests who makes you feel like you should be taking notes, and also like it's completely okay that you've been doing some of this wrong. We've all been doing some of this wrong.

This is Part 1 of a 3-part series — and yes, it gets considerably more personal from here.

If this episode has you doing a little reflecting on your own relationship, the Evaluate Your Relationship workbook is a great place to start. Grab it at lisamitchell.biz/podcast.

Connect with Heather:

https://www.heatherdesiena.com

https://www.instagram.com/heatherdesiena

https://www.linkedin.com/in/heatherdesiena

TEXT ME! Let me know what you think of this episode or what topics you would like to see covered next!

Want more Divorce Curious goodness? Sign up for my newsletter https://lisamitchell.biz/divorce-curious

Have a comment for me or a topic you want to see covered on the podcast? Email me at lisa@lisamitchell.biz

Connect with me on Instagram at @divorcecurioushelp

If you've ever thought "is this really as good as it gets?," this episode is your answer. Lisa sits down with Melissa Divaris Thompson, LMFT, whose no-judgment social media content has been stopping people mid-scroll and mid-spiral for years. Melissa brings the kind of real, digestible wisdom that makes you feel like she was literally sitting in your living room for your last argument. From the pursuer-withdrawer cycle to why healthy couples do fight, to what actually happens when you outgrow each other — this one hits.

In This Episode You'll Hear:

• "Love isn't luck, it's a skill" — what that actually means and why the apps are working against us
• The 3 must-haves / 3 can't-stands exercise — the simplest and most powerful filter for dating clarity
• The pursuer-withdrawer cycle explained — why you always seem to marry your opposite and what to do about it
• Your nervous system is running your relationship — what attachment style has to do with how you fight
• Why repair doesn't happen — and the exact reason couples wait too long to fix what's broken
• The slow emotional drift — why "nothing's really wrong" can still be a completely valid reason to be unhappy
• Outgrowing your partner — is it real, is it fair, and what do you actually do with it?

Key Takeaways & Actionable Insights

1. Get clear before you get out there. Before downloading the app or gussying up for the grocery store, ask yourself: what do I actually want?
2. Try the 3 must-haves / 3 can't-stands exercise. Boil your relationship non-negotiables down to just six things.
3. Know your conflict style. Are you the one who needs to talk about it right now (pursuer) or the one who needs to step away until things cool down (withdrawer)?
4. Regulate before you communicate. When you feel the script starting, your body will tell you first — heart racing, voice rising, shoulders up around your ears. That's your cue.
5. Repair is not optional. Sweeping it under the rug doesn't end the fight — it just adds it to the pile you'll trip over next time. Healthy couples argue and repair. Both parts matter.
6. Wanting more is not selfish. Wanting to feel desired, connected, and seen in your relationship is not a character flaw. It's a human need. Stop apologizing for having it.

Connect with Melissa Divaris Thompson, LMFT 🌐 Practice: embracingjoy.com (NY, NJ & CT clients) 📚 Courses + Free Downloads: embracingjoyconsulting.com 📸 Instagram: @embracingjoypsychotherapy 🎵 TikTok: @embracingjoynyc ▶️ YouTube: Embracing Joy

Connect with Lisa Mitchell 🌐 Website: lisamitchell.biz 📲 Everywhere: @divorcecurioushelp 💡 Download: Grab the Evaluate Your Marriage Workbook at lisamitchell.biz

Loved this episode? Leave a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review on Apple Podcasts — it helps more people find this community when they need it most.

#DivorceСurious #CouplesTherapy #RelationshipAdvice #NervousSystemRegulation #AttachmentStyles #PursuerWithdrawer #MarriageHelp #EmotionallyFocuse

TEXT ME! Let me know what you think of this episode or what topics you would like to see covered next!

Want more Divorce Curious goodness? Sign up for my newsletter https://lisamitchell.biz/divorce-curious

Have a comment for me or a topic you want to see covered on the podcast? Email me at lisa@lisamitchell.biz

Connect with me on Instagram at @divorcecurioushelp